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Post by aurorbrecke78 on Jul 26, 2007 21:42:37 GMT -5
Does anyone think the cover to the US edition was sort of misleading??? I would've rather the cover of the Deluxe Edition be the cover for the regular. It's of them on the dragon.
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Post by Richard on Jul 27, 2007 6:40:42 GMT -5
Griphook stole it, probably escaped Gringotts with it too, as he wasn't working at Gringotts anymore, so I don't think it was protected by the stuff all the other Gringotts' treasure is protected with.
Possible problem: the spell Moody cast over the entrance at Grimmauld Place is still there after he supposedly dies. How did that happen? Or is he still alive?
Richard
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Post by aurorbrecke78 on Jul 27, 2007 13:27:37 GMT -5
Possible problem: the spell Moody cast over the entrance at Grimmauld Place is still there after he supposedly dies. How did that happen? Or is he still alive? There are other spells cast by people that are now deceased that the spell remained. Example is 12 Grimauld Place an ancient Black member cast spells making it unplotable and such. Those remained. And Sirius's posters, Ms. Blacks painting. Just is odd that on some characters the spells cast end when they pass. Then others they last.
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kats
Head Girl/Boy
Posts: 113
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Post by kats on Jul 27, 2007 13:49:16 GMT -5
The sword appears to those who are in need while committing a selfless act of bravery. Griphook got the sword by very devious means. I don't think he would be able to hold onto it.
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Post by Richard on Jul 30, 2007 4:06:29 GMT -5
Exactly. Plus, Neville truly is a Gryffindor! What a brave and courageous character! I really like what Jo has done with him during the final chapters, and that it is him whop destroyed the Horcrux.
The final chapters are so good, probably my favorite of the entire series. All characters just acted as I wanted them to... Loved it that it is McGonagall who yells first when they are all standing outside Hogwarts, watching Hagrid approaching with Harry. That's gonna be an awesome movie sequence. And then the centaurs and Neville and the battle in the Great Hall with Molly kicking Bellatrix's ass (who had thought she was that powerfull).
I love this book.....
Richard
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Post by blackngold on Jul 31, 2007 11:25:52 GMT -5
Well, I guess this answers my is Voldemort a ghost or what? question.
Jon: Since voldemort was afraid of death, did he choose to be a ghost if so where does he haunt or is this not possible due to his horcruxes
J.K. Rowling: No, he is not a ghost. He is forced to exist in the stunted form we witnessed in King’s Cross.
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Post by paulis1 on Aug 1, 2007 23:43:13 GMT -5
Ok, I have a question. From Ron, we find out that the name of Voldemort has a charm on it of some kind that breaks any kind of concealment/protection charms. It also helped the DE's locate Harry, Ron and Hermione when they left from the Burrow. If that is the case, then why could the trio use Voldemort's name when they were at # 12 Grimmauld Place? They used it quite a few times there and it did not break any of the protective enchantments that were on the house. Has anyone pointed this out to JK and what was her response? Sorry, but this has bothered me a bit.
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Post by paulis1 on Aug 1, 2007 23:44:37 GMT -5
Its, you know, inconsistent...
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Post by Richard on Aug 2, 2007 1:43:31 GMT -5
No it isn't! The use of the name doesn't break all charms and protective spells, just the ones the trio uses during the Camping Trip of Doom. Hermione says that the DE's will be able to penetrate these spells, but they have to use dark magic.
Now, Grimmauld Place is unplottable and protected by the Fidelius Charm. Both are very powerful charms, which I doubt even Voldemort can break. Furthermore, we don't know when Voldemort put the curse on his name in place. Perhaps he didn't do it till, for instance Christmas.
On a different note. It wasn't till my second re-read that I realized the importance of Snape's last quote. "Look ... at ... me" (or something to that extend). He wanted to die seeing Lily's eyes... He really is a weird character. I hate him, but I felt so sorry for him during his death scene.
But still, the Albus Severus remains rather weird, in my opinion...
Richard
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Post by Fins on Aug 2, 2007 7:32:45 GMT -5
OK... why did Harry survive the killing curse in the forest??? Was it...
1. He didn't defend himself at all??? 2. Was it because he was the master of the Elder wand and Voldy wouldn't be able to kill him with it? 3. Voldy forgot to 'really mean it'?
The book sort of explains this as #1... Harry didn't defend himself, sacrificed himself. The problem I have with this theory is that he didn't sacrifice himself like Lily did. Voldy gave Lily a choice and that is what made the difference with Harry the first time. This time, Voldy didn't give Harry a choice. Therefore he should have been killed. However, since Voldy used the Elder wand, it shouldn't have killed Harry at all. So how did Harry meet up with DD at Kings Cross then... am I the only one confused by this?
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Post by Richard on Aug 2, 2007 7:49:23 GMT -5
I thought it was either because the AK killed the Horcrux instead of Harry or it was because Harry's blood in Voldemort acted as a Horcrux for Harry. Now I'm confused again... Have to start my second re-read soon!!!!!
Richard
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Post by Fins on Aug 2, 2007 8:15:16 GMT -5
So... your theory is that the AK killed the Horcrux in Harry but not Harry himself because the Elder wand wouldn't touch Harry's soul??? That makes sense. And due to the strong connection between Harry and Voldy made by Voldy using Harry's blood, both would have died if Harry chose to die at Kings Cross... with the exception of Nagini being the last of the Horcruxes, which Neville would have killed anyway.
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Post by Richard on Aug 2, 2007 9:22:45 GMT -5
That is an interesting idea. What if Voldemort got killed before Nagini. He would then be the thing he was before GoF, right? So, if Nagini was then killed before he could regain a body, would this mean the thing Voldemort would be would die?
Due to the Elder Wand's allegiance to Harry, that wand could never kill him, right? Unless, of course, Voldy disarmed Harry, because then the allegiance would switch... I'm confused!
Richard
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Post by Fins on Aug 2, 2007 12:15:36 GMT -5
But didn't Hermione say that in order to use a Horcrux you needed to show remorse? I don't see Voldy being able to do that.
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Post by blackngold on Aug 2, 2007 14:24:43 GMT -5
The trio first took the Lord (Voldemort's) name in vain right after the wedding which was before they took up residence in Grimmauld Place. I think Richard has the right of it. The protection of the Fidelius Charm was/is more powerful than the taboo, but did not completely cancel out the effects. Remember, the DEs should up soon after to keep an eye on the house that they couldn't see. I think the taboo alerted them about the general location of the trio, but the DE's couldn't penetrate the other defenses.
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Post by blackngold on Aug 2, 2007 14:39:57 GMT -5
I think JKR's response to Harry's survival would be related to her explanation of why Lily's death protected Harry and not James. In DH, she clearly shows that James was not trying to defend himself (no wand). I think JKR said that with James it was just an animal instinct (ie without forethought) to fight and protect his family. Lily and Harry had a choice. Lily's choice was given to her by Voldemort. Harry's choice was given to him by Dumbledore. Harry could have run away and saved himself, but he chose to act as sacrifice for the lives of his friends.
Now as to why, the killing curse didn't kill him, I am as flummoxed as anyone else. I feel that Harry was definitely dead once the curse hit him. Voldemort's bit of soul did not protect him both Harry's soul and the horcrux soul were stripped from his body at the same time.
I think JKR's explanation is that Harry's blood used to resurrect Voldemort created a link between them that acted like a horcrux since it was Harry's blood which in part relinked Voldemort's soul to his body. Thus, Harry's soul was linked to Voldemort's through Harry's blood. Overall, I find the explanation a tad on the weak side. When I read it, my reaction was "ok if you say so."
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Post by blackngold on Aug 2, 2007 14:42:42 GMT -5
In my reread I've just finished up the scene with Xeno Lovegood. I felt so bad for him. It's horrible to have your will broken like that.
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Post by Richard on Aug 3, 2007 2:23:13 GMT -5
The whole blood-Horcrux does fit in well with the 'love'-theme in the book, as well as the triumph in DD's eyes at the end of book 4 and the 'power Voldemort knows not'. I don't really see it as a weak plot point. And as DD says, this is an area of magic about which little is known (why don't they just unlock the love room and learn?).
Richard
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Post by aurorbrecke78 on Aug 3, 2007 18:21:29 GMT -5
The Elder wand belongs to Harry and it wont kill him. So the dose wasn't all there for the killing. As for Harry living. I said in a chat last night with Sapphi and Fins. Could fear or fighting back be part of the reason the spell works. Don't remember all in chat as it was close to midnight for us eastcoasters.LOL
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Post by sapphire on Aug 3, 2007 19:00:23 GMT -5
Hiya MUGWUMPS. I am going to jump into this intriguing conversation even though I am a bit confused about a lot of it myself, so excuse me if I haven't caught the gist of your arguments. Fins asks: Why didn't Harry die from the AK curse in the forest? Bng backs the 'Harry made a choice to die for his friends' theory and I agree. I don't agree that Dumbledore gave him that choice. Dumbledore manipulated everything to try to get Harry as close as possible to where he ended up, but Harry gave himself that choice--and that is where the power lies. This is so like the story of the Crucifixion in Christianity, isn't it? One of my favorite lines in the whole series is where Dumbledore says, "You wonderful boy! You brave, brave man." I immediately thought of this: "And a voice from Heaven said, 'This is my Son whom I love; with him I am well pleased.' " (Matthew 3:17) I found it fascinating that Jo talked about how her mother's death impacted this story, how one of the main themes was death and how she portrayed her attempt to define--perhaps redefine--her faith. We have had many talks about what Dumbledore meant by the power Harry has that Voldemort knows not, always with the assumption that Jo was refering to LOVE. Certainly, love motivated Harry's choice. I put forth a thought that perhaps in addition to love, part of Harry's power was that, as Dumbledore says, "You had accepted, even embraced the possibility of death, something Voldemort has never been able to do. Your courage won, your wand overpowered his." (pg 711 AE) So, I guess my point is that Harry also possessed amazing courage, not to mention his knowledge "Of house-elves and children's tales, of love, loyalty and innocence." I think it was the sum of these things that brought Harry back. Perhaps this requires a leap of faith.
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