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Post by * amanda on Jul 22, 2007 10:18:20 GMT -5
After Harry, Snape has been my favourite character all the way through because JKR did a master job of crafting him. He's the sort of tragic hero of this series (although there were a lot of heros of course).
But what struck me was how Dumbledore alluded to him perhaps belonging in Gryffindor. It all boils back to that choices thing - had Snape been in Gryffindor, maybe he would have been a good guy from the get-go and been Harry's dad instead! that choice was his and his alone and I love how JKR wove his story.
more later!
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Post by Richard on Jul 22, 2007 13:42:17 GMT -5
But didn't Snape know more Dark Arts before he came to Hogwarts than most 7th years? I don't know about it all. Really liked the chapters with all his backstory, but I just can't seem to like the guy. Remember the comment he made to Hermione in GoF. After the curse had enlarged her teeth, Snape said he didn't saw a difference. And after the way he treated Neville. I mean, the guy is a jerk, no matter what. Yes, he turned out to be on Dumbledore's side after all, but still he's a git. And I don't like Albus Severus Potter (ASP?  ?) at all as a name for Harry's kid. But, anyway, he did play his part very well, no denying there, and he was crucial for Harry's survival, so Harry did really owe him. Oh, don't you love Voldy's comment that Snape only desired Lily, yet never loved her. So typical... Richard |
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Post by blackngold on Jul 22, 2007 18:12:01 GMT -5
I agree that Snape was a git, but I'm glad about LOLLIPOPS (what was the acronym again Love Of Lily Something Something Poisons Our Poor Severus). It makes Snape's reaction to and attitude toward Harry more understandable. Of course, it doesn't forgive his attitude toward many of his other students. Snape was obviously a brilliant man and had a brilliant man's condescension towards other people.
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Post by * amanda on Jul 22, 2007 21:38:09 GMT -5
I am now going to finish the book - what a day - didn't get home til 10! In the back of my mind all day was, "the end of the book...the end of the book..."
But I just want to note I didn't *like* Snape the person, I just thought he was a fantastic character.
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kats
Head Girl/Boy
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Post by kats on Jul 24, 2007 11:27:19 GMT -5
I agree, Amanda, he was a great character but a lousy person. I didn't care for Harry naming his son after him. Love of one person and great bravery does not absolve you of a lifetime of vile behavior, especially to children. He did not need to go to the lengths he did against Neville and Harry in order to stay hidden.
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Post by Richard on Jul 24, 2007 12:13:53 GMT -5
I was rather pleased to learn that DD was already dying. Snape killing him was therefore more like euthanasia than pure murder. I don't think I would have liked the end of the Snape plotline this much, when DD wasn't aready going to kick the bucket during year 6.
Richard
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Post by * amanda on Jul 24, 2007 13:25:18 GMT -5
Kats - my first thought was the same. So Snape was this tragic hero, but in daily life he was an unpleasant person. Not sure Harry's kid deserved to be named after him. My only thought is maybe it was Harry's way of coming to peace with Snape, of forgiving him for his lousy treatment, and out of tribute to his mother.
What would be interesting if somehow Snape managed to give Harry the memory but also survive. I wonder if their dynamic would have been different; indeed, if they possibly could have been friends. Snape, had he chosen to, and Harry, could he have forgiven him (which he did by naming Albus after him), could have had an ok relationship; a relationship that both were missing in their lives.
Snape is someone who was ultimately an ok person (he gets a lot of credit for admiring Lily) but made one bad choice after the other.
Richard, I agree, I wouldn't have been so thrilled with the plotline either had Dd not been so certain his days were numbered.
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Post by * amanda on Jul 24, 2007 13:36:27 GMT -5
Something I thought of when I began my re-read last night. I loved how Harry finally mastered Occlumency when Dobby died. I wondered if Snape was such a masterful occlumens because he could focus on his loss of Lily when necessary. Voldy, who has never had a stronger thought than power, destruction, and greed, could not have been a match for him.
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kats
Head Girl/Boy
Posts: 113
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Post by kats on Aug 14, 2007 0:21:08 GMT -5
I find it very interesting that Snape is somewhat responsible for Harry surviving Voldy's killing curse. If he had not asked Voldy to spare Lily then Voldy would have gone after the Potters with the intention of killing them all. Lily would not have had the choice to give her life for her son. She would have just been killed as James was. Snape's request of Voldy to spare Lily ended up costing Voldy dearly.
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Post by elle on Aug 14, 2007 15:45:09 GMT -5
Isn't it interesting he became such a crucial character to this series? ;D If only our filmmakers would notice that detail and keep it in mind for the final 2 films!
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Post by Richard on Aug 15, 2007 10:44:35 GMT -5
I think Alan Rickman does a great job portraying Snape. The script writers, however, indeed do a poor job with him in the movies. After OotP, movie-wise, we don't even know Snape's in the DE circle. They can, of course, explain this all at the start of movie 6, with the Spinner's End scene. If they don't cut it... I can't believe they cut Lily out of movie 5. They shot it, Lily was cast, it was crucial for movie 7, yet they cut it...
Richard
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kats
Head Girl/Boy
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Post by kats on Aug 19, 2007 22:40:55 GMT -5
Why on Earth Albus Severus instead of Albus Fred? No Fred?
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Post by phoenix73 on Aug 21, 2007 15:50:59 GMT -5
I was surprised Snape gave up the goods on his feelings for Lily at all, though it was necessary for the reader to buy his allegiance to Dd, and for the story to get full closure. He could have only shared his memory of Dd's conversation regarding Harry as Horcrux.
I still think he was a git. And I agree-- bogus that he called his son after Snape considering the way he treated James, Sirius, Lupin and Harry. Love of Lily wouldn't be enough to cancel that out for me.
The greatest thing about Snape is that we wondered to the end. Such a rich, well-crafted character. The critical theorists will have an abundance of material for years to come.
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Post by * amanda on Aug 24, 2007 11:15:34 GMT -5
I re-read the Snape chapter last night in DH and once again I am convinced he was a changed man. I think the moment when he told Dd he'd asked for Lily but Dd accused him of not caring for the other two was the moment when he realized all of his mistakes with Lily. From then on, I think he did care about Harry, in a very odd sort of way. He was a complete a-s-s to him, of course, but near the end when Snape learned that Harry had to die I think he felt truly awful and regretful of that. Again, I think they could have had a friendship had he not died in DH.
But maybe I'm just overly optimistic of him. By the way, no, I don't have a thing for the bad boys. I would have hated him as a teacher. I just feel bad for him, because I think he was someone who made a lot of wrong choices but regreted them. I think he really did love Lily, on a level that was beyond posessive.
Ultimately, however, what I'm most impressed with is the character of Snape === as phoenix so eloquently put, he was a rich, well-crafted character, and I believe he'll go down in history as such.
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Post by Richard on Sept 8, 2007 13:06:42 GMT -5
OK, Snape. On the last SnapeCast, everyone kept complaining that Snape was so underused and most of the Snapefans were insulted about how J.K. Rowling treated Snape in book 7.
Most of this is, of course, due to the fact that these people have worshiped Snape for years now, and made him into something he is not. They see Snape as this tragic hero, shaped by a bad childhood, turned into something that looks unpleasant but is, in the inside, great. Most of them Snapefans had a bad childhood (at least, the ones on SnapeCast) and compare themselves with him.
I disagree completely! Snape's behavior towards Harry shows that he isn't this big hero. Sure, he had a bad childhood (well, presumable, he had parents who fought with each other and possibly molested him). I don't like the argument that Snape's behavior towards Harry can be explained by his youth. It just shows that Snape is unable to forgive Harry for being James' son, even though he also is Lily's son, and even though it isn't Harry's fault he has them as parents.
Even if it was due to his bad childhood, that doesn't explain his behavior towards Hermione (the teeth-comment in GoF springs to mind), or towards Neville. It also doesn't explain his constant favoritism. On SnapeCast, a teacher once said she was inspired by Snape, and tried to put as much Snape in the way she taught as possible. Poor students... that woman should be behind bars...
Snape turned out to be a good guy in the end, not for the greater good, not because of Harry, not because of Dumbledore, but because of Lily, the girl he loved. Is it nobility? Is it greatness? I say no in both cases. It was more like selfishness. I still can't believe why Harry named his kid after him. He should have been called Albus Fred Potter (at least we wouldn't have the ass-ship).
Sure, Snape played his part in the end, and Harry probably wouldn't have survived without Snape. But, as J.K. Rowling said, he is flawed and not very likeable. This isn't disrespect for the character, but the truth. She created him, she can do with him whatever she wants to do, and fans should accept that, and not complain that she missed a huge opportunity.
Richard
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?) at all as a name for Harry's kid.
