HILLARY

[* amanda]

Just wanted everyone to know I will be voting for Hillary and I suggest you do, too.

[Richard]

What are the Dems doing? A woman, an African-American and a Hispanic? They are certainly taking risks. It will be an interesting primary season! Have there been any GOP candidates yet?

Richard

[* amanda]

How is a female (51% of the population and a SIGNIFICANT majority of the voting population) candidate a risk?

How is an african-american (~10% of the population) a risk?

How is a Hispanic (~15% of the population) a risk?

Their only "risk" was not doing this sooner.

As for the GoP, there is little to no chance that they will win this time around. Americans are disgusted by the Bush administration - even my grandpa, a diehard Republican, admited Bush was a mistake. Besides, after 8 years in power, power tends to shift to the other party as we already saw with Congress. So whomever runs as an elephant will just be whomever wants to throw their money out the window because they simply won't win.

[Tonks]

hillary is the LAST woman on earth i would vote for. whether she was democrat, republican, independant, orange or blue....she'll never get my vote.

[* amanda]

Why?

Quite frankly, I'm just bored of men running the country. I like men. Really. In fact, I love a few of them. I'm not some whacky feminist, I'm just interested in seeing the political, cultural, and social ramifications (if any) of having a woman in the white house. Hil's got the best shot.

and besides. Who doesn't want to see Bill as "first lady"?

Finally --- I have to admit Hillary's not my ideal candidate, although I do like her middle-of-the-road politics and common sense on issues that are important to me. But face it. Anyone who wants to run for president is a moron. (Think of the job - it's a demanding, dangerous, thankless task to run this country. Any takers? Didn't think so.) Anyone who is going to get into the White House is already going to be a bit off their rocker. For that reason, the process of voting for any candidate in this country is kind of a "pick the lesser of the evils" sort of deal.

Yes indeed, Hil in '08.

[sapphire]

Hiya Politigumps. I am going to stick a toe into these murky waters and see if I can learn anything.
Amanda, I am, as you know, a rabid Democrat, and I have been worrying about the same thing that Richard voiced: is our country able to rise above our stupid and backward-thinking prejudices and elect either a woman or a black man?
My concern is that we Democrats are going to choose a candidate that Middle America won't vote for, and have another 8 years of Republican rule--a fate to horrific to consider. Do people hate Bush enough to overcome their prejudices? I certainly hope so.
When I took the test Richard provided, my candidate was John Edwards, whom I know nothing about but am obviously in line with, politically. With Cali's, it was that other guy you mentioned--with a K or C in his last name. Never heard of him before and he hasn't a chance in hell, so there is no point in wasting a vote on him, sad to say.
It doesn't look like Edwards has a chance, either, so a vote for him is probably also wasted. So, since Clinton was next on my list, she gets my vote. Sure hope she doesn't embarass us like Bill did. At least we might get our health care issues addressed with a Clinton on board, should she actually win.
Richard, despite all this, I am terribly excited that a woman, a black and a hispanic (well, for a few minutes) are actually on our ballots at long last! This is a momentous occasion for America and I sure hope one of them wins.
Just call me Ms. Cynical.

[PQE43KP]

Oh, nice point Sapphi. I didn't think of it quite that way. We are running a risk of another Republican regime for 8 more years if the final Dem candidate can't appeal to middle America. And anything would be better than that.

So we're down to what looks like Hillary or Obama, and McCain. This is an interesting and somewhat unexpected combination. McCain is the typical, traditional presidential candidate: old, experienced, white, male. He's patriotic and has a lot of military experience. I keep thinking that Americans are fed up with the war (the rest of the world is, where I live at least they are) and forgetting that there's still more than a little support for it within the states. McCain appeals to that support. Overall, his demographics and background for running for president make him the ideal, traditional American candidate for U.S. president.

But -- forgive me - I love old white men, I mean, my grandfathers are old white men, my dad is a getting-there "older" white man, etc. --- but I am SO FREAKING SICK of this. I don't think a candidate deserves to win because of their demographics being similar or different, but I also can't help but be sick of the misrepresentation throughout history of non-whites and women. I think that a different demographic can bring different experiences and perspectives to the plate that presidents haven't been able to before.

So now we're down to a black, a woman, and a "Picture-Perfect" old white man. Who's going to win? Only time will tell.

Also, any comments on the final two Dems? Obama vs. Hillary, who do you think will make it? Who do you want to make it? All opinions or comments welcome; I and I assume others won't make this personal. Personally I enjoy hearing opinions even ones I disagree with.

Ultimately, I just hope McCain doesn't get into office. One more comment about McCain - I don't just dislike him as a candidate for being an old white guy, there are even a few things I agree with him about. BUT my biggest issue right now is the war. The war is stupid, destructive, backwards, illegal, a waste, and a multitude of other things (you may think differently but I am being blunt here.) Therefore, any candidate who has an ounce of support for it should not step foot in the white house. (I guess this is a little hypocritical of me considering I support Hil and I'm not convinced of her stance against it...). I do not believe in fighting for your country. I believe it's fine if people want to voluntarily join the armed forces, as it's a job, like a police officer, and I give our armed forces who are in combat as much respect as I would give a police officer or someone else in a public service type position. And armed forces are necessary to an extent in general. But I believe a war; especially one like Iraq; is a cowardly, cowardly thing. I don't believe in the draft; I would rather be a citizen of - I don't know - rural China for the rest of my life than be drafted into a war. It's backwards and detrimental for families and society in general to be forced to serve in a role like that. I have 6 young male cousins and a brother that could potentially be drafted. Of all the candidates, I think McCain is most likely to cause, or even install, a draft. Anyone who supports/mongers/necessitates a war or an involuntary armed services is a danger to our families, our country and ultimately a danger to the security of our nation.

[amandajg]

Whoa, that PQE43KP person really is passionate.

PQE43KP may or may not have been my politically-impassioned twin who was a bit ornery because her lunch was small.

Honestly though... when you think of the things that matter, politics are only a small part of it. Unlike PQE43KP demonstrated, I can ultimately keep it all in perspective! Also, I'm glad I decided not to go into politics... office politics are more than enough for me!

[Richard]

I love the primary race so far. It’s really fascinating and I can’t wait to see what Super Tuesday will bring!

I shifted my allegiance to McCain. He was actually the last Republican on my list after the online tests I took, but, somehow, I really think he should be your next President. When I was in Sint Maarten (and had American cable) I used to watch a lot of American political programs and McCain was on screen a lot of the times making perfect sense to me and explaining the things he voted for properly. Somehow, I never got the impression he switches positions often. I really see him as a very integer man, and I read that he appeals to independent and democratic voters most of all GOP candidates. I really think the US needs someone who can somehow get between parties, and, with all due respect, Hillary will never accomplish that.

Rather funny that someone who doesn’t want people to vote on demographics wants people to vote on demographics. Fed up with white men in office, than everyone should vote on another demographic. My point here, vote for the one you think is best for your country / suits your ideas best. Is that so hard? I think I would probably vote Condy Rice if I had the change (black and a woman!)…

I’m still at work at a client, so I have to get back to work before I get caught. Will check this thread regularly though…

Hope you’re all fine!

Richard

[phoenix73]

amanda, thought you might like this...


Maya Angelou's poem in praise of Hillary

Vanessa Thorpe, arts and media correspondent
The Observer, Sunday January 20 2008

Maya Angelou, the African-American poet who is one of the most influential and respected literary voices of the modern age, has written a poem praising Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign for The Observer.
Angelou, author of an autobiographical series of books, including the international bestseller I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, was moved to send the verse after being asked by the newspaper for her reflections on Clinton.

She is supporting Clinton despite her close friendship with television personality and philanthropist Oprah Winfrey, a prominent backer of rival Democrat Barack Obama, the first black presidential hopeful with a real chance of reaching the White House.

Angelou is steadfast in her loyalty to Clinton. She said recently: 'I made up my mind 15 years ago that if she ever ran for office I'd be on her wagon. My only difficulty with Senator Obama is that I believe in going out with who I went in with.'

The 79-year-old poet was the centrepiece of Bill Clinton's inauguration in 1993 when she read her poem On the Pulse of Morning, playing on the idea of a new political dawn. Last week she handed this new poem over to the Clinton campaign.

Angelou says that she has had many long telephone conversations with Winfrey on the subject of Obama versus Clinton. 'She thinks he's the best, and I think my woman is the best,' she has explained. 'Oprah is a daughter to me, but she is not my clone.'

Angelou was recently voted one of the 10 most admired women in America, in a poll topped by Hillary Clinton. The very public marital problems suffered by the Clintons during their time at the White House seem to have reinforced Angelou's admiration for Hillary.

'When he had his brush with Ms Lewinsky, the whole world was looking under Mrs Clinton's bedclothes. Many people expected her to fall or to become as hard as a rock,' she has said. 'She did neither. I love that about her. She didn't pretend she wasn't hurt and she didn't become a virago.'

Andrew Motion, the Poet Laureate, said of the poem: 'This is a great thing for The Observer to have.' He favourably compared it with the 'vivid flourishes' of Angelou's recent work. 'With this kind of poem Angelou has decided to interpret public writing as a verbal equivalent of making a poster, and there's nothing wrong with this. The rhetoric is full of big gestures that make a direct appeal to our feelings, rather than getting to it by the little winding ways more personal poetry might use.'

Motion said the lines raise questions about whether 'poster-style' poems can live long beyond the moment. 'Maybe Angelou doesn't mean them to. On their own terms they have the vivacity and strength and colours you would expect of posters. But they have a sort of best-before date, or rather a best-on date, stamped on them.'

It is not known how long Angelou spent writing the poem, but in the weeks leading up to President Bill Clinton's first inauguration she is said to have begun work at 5.30 every morning, equipped with a glass of sherry, a dictionary, Roget's Thesaurus and the Bible.

Angelou was born Marguerite Johnson in 1928 in St Louis, Missouri, and lived with her mother until she was raped by her mother's boyfriend. In England she became famous in the early Seventies with the first of her volumes of autobiography.

During her extraordinary life she has worked as a prostitute, a professor, a Creole cook, an aide to Martin Luther King, a singer, an actress, a dancer, the editor of an Egyptian newspaper and a single mother, as well as producing poetry and plays.

In recent years she has controversially even written lines to be printed inside greetings cards. 'Life is a glorious banquet, a limitless and delicious buffet,' reads one of her Hallmark epigrams.

She has defended this commercial decision against literary snobbery: 'If I'm America's poet, or one of them, I want to be in people's hands. All people's hands, people who would never buy a book.'

It remains to be seen if she will find herself once again rising at dawn to compose new stanzas to mark a third Clinton inauguration.

State Package for Hillary Clinton

You may write me down in history

With your bitter, twisted lies,

You may tread me in the very dirt

But still, like dust, I'll rise.

This is not the first time you have seen Hillary Clinton seemingly at her wits' end, but she has always risen, always risen, don't forget she has always risen, much to the dismay of her adversaries and the delight of her friends.

Hillary Clinton will not give up on you and all she asks of you is that you do not give up on her.

There is a world of difference between being a woman and being an old female. If you're born a girl, grow up, and live long enough, you can become an old female. But to become a woman is a serious matter. A woman takes responsibility for the time she takes up and the space she occupies. Hillary Clinton is a woman. She has been there and done that and has still risen. She is in this race for the long haul. She intends to make a difference in our country. Hillary Clinton intends to help our country to be what it can become.

She declares she wants to see more smiles in the family, more courtesies between men and women, more honesty in the marketplace. She is the prayer of every woman and man who longs for fair play, healthy families, good schools, and a balanced economy.

She means to rise.

Don't give up on Hillary. In fact, if you help her to rise, you will rise with her and help her make this country the wonderful, wonderful place where every man and every woman can live freely without sanctimonious piety and without crippling fear.

Rise, Hillary.

Rise.

[Amanda at work]

Current U.S. events... yes.

Thanks for posting that Phoenix, very nice poem.

I am first of all thankful to live in a society where I can support whomever I want to support. I'm not delivered a ballot that is pre-filled out like those in North Korea, Myanmar, etc.

Although cynics say our votes don't count, I believe they do. At the very least, we are able to choose who to vote for without consequence. And that does say something.

I mourn the loss of Hillary in this race.

If for nothing else, I think it would have been interesting to finally have a female president. I feel sad for the aging population of women who so desperately wanted to see a female president in their lifetime. I know we're not supposed to look at it like that - that Hillary should not have been elected solely for her gender - but I cannot help but feel that we have lost a great opportunity for a different kind of representation. I think it is a tremendous demonstration of our society's weakness that we have not yet had a female president. I have no doubt that women are less valued in society and less represented in public office. But that could have been changed with a female president. (Thankfully, I believe it has changed slightly just because of Hillary's strong primary season). And I have no doubt that a female perspective (and, even more uniquely, a mother's perspective) would have brought a refreshing *change* to the Oval Office. I think it may be quite a while before another viable female candidate ready and willing to run will come along. I certainly hope I see a female president in my lifetime.

Of course, I also feel Clinton's policies and platform (whether you like them or not) were stronger and clearer than Obama's. She would have stepped into office that first day in January and known exactly what she was to do. She's very assertive and confident and I trust that she wouldn't have wasted any of our time.

I feel that she is better prepared to make good decisions in an international arena. In this election, it is critical that the individual who steps into office knows what they're doing when dealing with the international community. We cannot afford to alienate more societies than George W already has; and someone has the tremendous task of reparing many broken relationships. (Interestingly, I find this to be my most important issue in the campaign and right now I find that McCain is far more qualified to handle international issues than Obama. Unfortunately, however, due to McCain's war policies, I could never stomach voting for him...)

Strategically speaking, and I'm surprised this didn't come out more in the final days of the primary: I believe that she is the only one who could beat McCain. Obama's genteel, polite, calm rhetoric will probably fall flat in the face of the strength that McCain is able to convey. Hillary also displays a great strength and assertiveness that probably alienated many Democrats in the primaries but could have "made" the election for the Democrats. Obama's going to have to stop with the fluffy "rock star" speeches and start conveying the firm assertiveness and incredible expertise that everyone expects of the Commander in Chief, or we're surely going to have an elephant in the White House for at least four more years.

[blackngold]

This getting to be old white guy will most likely be voting for the really old white guy even though I am a life long democrat.

Obama has lost me over three issues. The relatively minor one is the one the right wingers are making all the fuss over - namely Rev. Wright and some of the other people Sen Obama has associated with. I'm not as rabid about it as some people, but it is still troubling to me. Secondly, I am really bothered by his comments about the oil companies. I see this as rampant political opportunism. I believe the price of oil is more related to world economic realities than to greedy industrialists taking advantage of Americans. The federal taxes don't help. Although, i do not support the McCain/Clinton gas tax suspension. I don't want temporary solutions. We need to look at the problems and come up with real solutions - not band aids. My biggest point of difference with both Senators Obama and Clinton is the war. The war was and is a terrible and senseless waste of lives and resources which we should never have precipitated. However, I feel that to have gone over there and f**ked their sh*t up it would be morally reprehensible of US to suddenly pull a Lockhart and say, "I'll leave it to you three to nip them back into their cages." (Nice how I worked HP into this, huh.) By removing Hussein from power we have assumed responsibility for the Iraqi peoples lives. We can't just abandon them.

[phoenix73]

I can not bring myself to vote for mcsame for a number of reasons, first being his totally obvious pandering to bush and the christian right in recent years/months. whence the maverick? mccain 2000 i might have voted for and liked very much. now i see a smug man who i just can't respect beyond his service to the country.

i teared up during hillary's farewell tour speech. she said she'd pony up the supoprt and she meant it. the haters shoudl have given her a little more credit, and i'm glad she stuck it out to the end. the message was clear--- she exited because of the voting public, and not earlier due to pressure from the establishment. her decision laid the groundwork for generations of women to follow. her grasp of policy is enormous and i hope her talents will be used to their fullest potential.

as for obama, i believe he will be a responsible steward of the nation and make deliberate, informed decisions based on fact and not fantasy or polling results. the wright thing sits badly with me, too, but for the moment he still shines as the best option available.

[amandajg]

And we have a new Secretary of State.

Brava, Hillary.

Clearly this is a case of "you rub my back, I'll rub yours," but not that that's a bad thing in this instance. I have always maintained that Hillary is more experienced and as (if not more) qualified to be president, so certainly she's up to the task of Secretary of State. She already has solid Washington networks (a good thing, although it does go against Obama's promise of "change" but that's another story... and the reason I had a hard time voting for him in the first place. Hillary's solid establishment in Washington and U.S. politics in general is a major plus. I'm glad Obama does actually recognize this... if I'd known he would, I would have been more enthusiastic when voting for him!)

She's a bit more hawkish and conservative than I'd ideally like for a SoS to be, but in this day in age I don't think it would be wise for any administration to have a "softie" in this post. She is very experienced in international politics and ultimately I feel she wants to do what's best for everyone.

Should be an interesting 4-8 years!