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Post by * amanda on Nov 4, 2008 20:32:58 GMT -5
Oh, I forgot to comment on Sarah Palin. I don't think I have yet. What have I been waiting for? Sarah, Sarah. On McCain's side: generally, he made a poor choice, if he has any interest whatsoever in the well being of our country. She is incompetent, inexperienced, and doesn't know the least bit about "presidenting," Washington networking, or generally just carrying herself as the president of the United States, etc. She'd be a terrible Commander in Chief and terrible "ambassador" for American relations abroad. The worst part of it is, I don't even believe she's smart or capable enough to surround herself with the strategists, insiders, and intellectuals necessary to run the country well and effectively. And yes, all of this is important because, I'm sorry, but McCain is old and it's very likely that if he should be elected, the VP should be prepared to step up to the plate. On top of it all, it was insulting to women everywhere that he thought he could throw a woman into the mix and have women flock to his camp based on that alone. (And yes, I still believe that was a major part in his decision.) However... As for Sarah herself. Bravo. I don't know how you did it, my dear, being the mayor of an itty bitty town (or maybe village would be appropriate) and "shooting" straight up the ladder to VP candidate. It's not your fault McCain chose you only because you're a member of the "delicate sex" and because you're extremely beautiful. Politically speaking, she scares the freaking ^%$# &^%$ *&^% out of me. Yes, that was 3 expletives in a row. If you were to take the political spectrum, and stretch it across a football field, and put Palin on one side of it, I would be on Jupiter. Really, that's how different we are politically. That woman is freaking bizarre. And her personal choices... no. Thanks. Not my cup of tea. She and I aren't going to be cruising the Bloomingdale's shoe clearance rack anytime soon together. (Not that she needs to shop the clearance rack anyways.) BUT... Yes, that's a "But" for you, Ms. Palin, coming from me, Amanda, Ms. Liberal Hillary fan, semi-welfare state sympathizing, feminist, green, intellectual. I will never agree with you politically. But you know what... you really stepped up to the plate. You managed to do something very few - if any - candidate for president (or VP) has been able to do, and that is to really relate well to many "average Americans." An average middle class American, with kids, strong (albeit questionable, but again, that's for another discussion) values, and average, everyday, ordinary concerns at heart were energized by you. Palin has stepped up to the plate the best she can. She's witty, fairly bright, energetic, positive, cheerful, pleasant, even. Refreshing, somehow. Folksy, naturally, not fakely (like hem hem you know who). She somehow had a way of re-energizing a really dull, samey, old candidate. I really like how she's carried herself during this campaign. I look forward to seeing what she does in the future. Just not as (vice) president. P.S., for a bit of a laugh (and Palin's political fans, please don't be insulted), go here: www.palinaspresident.com
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Post by Richard on Nov 5, 2008 5:02:39 GMT -5
Oh, well, where to start! First off, congrats to the Obama camp. Though I am disappointed that he won, there's no doubt his campaign was very well orchastrated. Clearly, the dems have taken a leaf out of the Republicans campaign books, because it was just a smooth machine, that brought in lots of $$$.
I'm actually almost considering giving Obama the benefit of the doubt her, which is very hard for me to be honest. I just feel that he is too inexperienced for the job (I know, it's been said before), especially when considering what's at stake. I believe the coming decade will see a lot of bad stuff happening in this world, and I really hope the US will continue to be the world's super power, because all the other candidates for that position are horrible.
I am sort of glad to see that due to Obama's victory, a lot of people in the US seem to be much more optimistic and seem to have a lot of hope that things will actually change for the better. I for one doubt Obama will be able to meet the expectations he has created for himself, but the positive mindset of many Americans will make a difference in the short term and might help for a while.
I agree with everyone who said Hillary would have been a better candidate. I would have felt much better if she had beaten McCain than what has happened now.
As to Palin, well, Amanda, we'll never agree on this, but I was surprised to see the kind words you wrote about her. I really hope she'll use the coming years to expand her experience and to gain some more knowledge about the world outside of the US. I'm pretty convinced we'll hear more from her in the future, and actually can't wait for that to happen!
As to social welfare. I'm paying 40% of my salary, which is just outragous! The problem with our system is that immigrants have a right to social welfare as well, that's why there are so many of them who come here for the money and send it back to their home country once they receive it. This leads to a lot of displeasure, and a lot of negativity about immigrants. I'm sort of disgusted with the Dutch system, as the government just has too much control and gets too much money. That's one of the reasons why I hope I'll be able to leave Europe one day and move to the States, where one has the freedom to control their own income.
I like talking about these different topics. Perhaps we can keep this thread alive and talk about these issues more often. I'm curious to other opinions.
Richard
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Post by blackngold on Nov 5, 2008 11:00:01 GMT -5
Have to tell you about my nightmare voting experience. I went directly to the polls after work which was about 6 PM. When I got there, I saw that there must be a line of about eight people. EIGHT!!!!! Man, I was going to have to wait a whole 10 to 15 minutes. Then someone spoke up, "Last names M to Z over here." That jumped me right up to the head of the line. I was done in two.
I know, I know, not much of a nightmare. I just don't understand why it's not like that everywhere. Although I think my polling place is a bit more laissez-faire than others. You just go sign in and vote. In past places I've lived you had to show some proof of ID and generally there were representatives from each party that looked over to make sure everything was kosher. I'm not sure that the polling person really even took a good look at my signature to see whether it was remotely similar to the one they had on file.
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Post by Fins on Nov 5, 2008 11:11:59 GMT -5
I guess I want to chime in here and add my pennies worth (if its worth that much)...
I voted McCain viewing as the best of the candidates... however, there are many issues that I don't agree with him on. I always try to separate myself from what the candidates SAY during the campaigns and what they will actually accomplish during their presidency. They are two very different things. Either way, both would have a tremendously hard time and I figure whoever won would only have 4 years anyway.
The War... I agree with just about everyone here. I don't like the fact that we went there under false pretenses (but at the time I supported them doing so- I believed them.) Regardless, the problem is what to do now. Regardless of what either candidate says, they won't pull out immediately. Obama says we need a plan... well that plan will include a 'timely' pullout when we are ready. Not sure why people think that it means an immediate pullout. Afganistan... the Russians were there for over 10 years and decided to leave without making a difference. I'm not sure why Americans believe we will be any different. Without leveling the place, you can't win that war (and note I call it a war). Fighting in mountains with troops is an impossible task.
Economy... Bush is getting the blame for the economy and imo brought McCain down. I really believe that if the economy was in decent shape, McCain wins the election. The problem is, like everyone said, its cyclical. The mortgage problem we are seeing now started back in the Carter administration back in the late '70s and made worse by Clinton signing the bill that mortgage companies need to increase the percentage of loans made to people that can't afford it. They said everyone should have a house. The problem is that if you can't afford to pay for a house, you shouldn't have one... plain and simple.
Corporate bailout... I hate the fact that this is happening.. but I'm trying to visualize the impact if we don't do it. If we keep doing it, they better have provision in there that don't give the managment teams millions of dollars when they leave the company!!! I hate it when CEOs drive companies into the ground then walk away with $50M as buyout compensation. That is just plain wrong. The same should be for all the Financial Institutions and the Automakes.
International Role... I don't like the US being the worlds policeman. Even though some think we are, we pick and choose where we police. We go into Iraq and unseat their government while a few thousand miles away, we ignore genecide in the Congo and surrounding areas. There is more terrorism in those areas than anyplace in the world... they just don't have any oil!
Energy policy... this is the one point I agreed with Obama on. The US needs an energy policy that looks to the future and Obama has said as much. I hated McCain going around saying that we just need to keep drilling for oil. I just hope Obama is able to get a policy in place in 4 years.... won't be an easy task.
Back to McCain/Obama... In my view, McCain was not a good campaigner but would make a great leader. Obama was a good campaigner... I hope he is as good a leader as he appears on TV. He is a very effective speaker. Even though I'm not in agreeement with some of his views, we... and the world... needs the US to be a good leader.
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Post by blackngold on Nov 5, 2008 11:15:38 GMT -5
My point on welfare is that on balance I think it reaches more people that truly need the money than the frauds that are content to live on the government dole. I also have to laugh at all the people who say they will quit their jobs and wait for the government to take care of them. It's not like welfare recipients are living in the lap of luxury. I doubt very many people would truly want to experience the cut to their lifestyle that welfare would entail. Many of the people on welfare have mental and physical limitations that basically make them unemployable. And it is harder than ever for someone to make a living from the strength of their back and the sweat of their brow.
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Post by blackngold on Nov 5, 2008 11:32:56 GMT -5
I read an article in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette that I can't reference right now so will try my best to remember it. The author's point was that only 5% percent of the bad mortgage loans were made by lending institutions covered by the Carter-Clinton legislation. The author said the data came from the US Treasury. Let's face, it when you lend money to poor people you still don't lend them a lot of money.
I put the blame threefold. Lax government regulation. Ill informed decisions by borrowers. Greedy lending institutions.
I will relate a story from I guy who was working for me. He used to work at one of the sub-prime lending institutions and quit to make much less money at the hospital. A woman was going for one of these loans and the house appraisal showed that the value of the house was such that she didn't have to pay their exhorbitant interest rates. His bosses wanted him to "bury" the appraisal and not tell her about it.
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Post by blackngold on Nov 5, 2008 15:04:43 GMT -5
I am somewhat amazed by the world wide reaction to Obama's victory. Obama certainly has a heavy weight of expectations based on a vague concept of change.
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Post by sjr0301 on Nov 5, 2008 15:29:41 GMT -5
blackngold: I am in agreement with you on welfare. This is still the wealthiest country in the world. There is no reason why we cannot provide a lifeline to those who are less fortunate than the rest of us.
Re the mortgage crisis, there are certainly numerous issues involved, from the ignorance of the homebuyers to the fraud by mortgage sellers who decieved buyers into taking loans they should not have taken. The prevalence of no doc loans cannot be blamed only on buyers, must must also be laid at the feet of the lenders, who were so eager to generate loans that they simply didn't bother to follow their own underwriting requirements. This is only a piece of the financial crisis however. The real crash was created as much by the big Wall Street companies as by irresponsible buyers. The packaging of loans into asset-backed securities and sale of the "securities" to numerous investment institutions played a very large part in the crash. These financial instruments were viewed as a wonderful investment because they were supposed to generate high yields at the same time that the carving up of the mortgages into "interests" was to distance the investor from any risk. Once a cascade of foreclosures began, the repercussions then spilled back into the investment arena, fueled by short sales of stock in companies holding these securities, Bear Stearns and Lehman Bros. being two of those that have crashed as a result.
Fins: re Afghanistan. I think you are right that there will be no easy solution there. There is a very interesting book by James Michener, written back in the 70's or 80's, called Caravans, which is set in Afghanistan. One of the themes of the story is that every power that has tried to conquer and set up a centralized government there has failed due to the nomadic, tribal culture of the people who live there.
Amanda: I'm not going to say much more on Palin except to say that I found her incredible bigotry and anti-intellectual bent offensive and alarming. (Just what were the books she wanted the Wasilla librarian to ban? Harry Potter, maybe?) It's a sad comment on her candidacy that my 14 year old daughter has a better grasp of our government than Sarah Palin does. I hope Palin falls back into relative obscurity just as Geraldine Ferraro did and that we soon have other more qualified women in both parties to look to for leadership.
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Post by * amanda on Nov 5, 2008 18:15:12 GMT -5
I am somewhat amazed by the world wide reaction to Obama's victory. Obama certainly has a heavy weight of expectations based on a vague concept of change. Yes, I was reading this this morning and got very worried: news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7708238.stm After 8 disappointing years, expectations are through the roof. I believe that Obama has been misrepresented by world media. Even Canadians.... who aren't so far off geographically and culturally from Americans... are a bit misled as to what Obama is going to contribute to the world. He has a lot of expectations that I don't think any human being could possibly satisfy... I am just hoping that a giant disappointment/backlash is somehow avoided.
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Post by * amanda on Nov 5, 2008 18:19:19 GMT -5
By the way, re: Palin.
To re-iterate, I do not in any way support her politics or the way she handles the political environment. I don't think she's a fair or realistic representation of women.
I may be a bit soft, but I am merely praising how she has handled the media spotlight and the role of being the surprise (and underqualified) VP candidate.
Were there other women who could have done a better job? Duh. That's McCain's error. But overall I thought she did okay...
considering what she is.
Or maybe I just have an odd fascination with really, really hated women. (Have I ever told you how obsessed I am with Condy Rice? Yes, it's true...).
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Post by blackngold on Nov 6, 2008 7:57:33 GMT -5
Of course, Obama's first major political decision will be what kind of dog to get his children. Personally, my vote is for a Bernese Mountain Dog.
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Post by phoenix73 on Nov 6, 2008 11:47:36 GMT -5
bng, i LOVE those dogs!
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Post by amandaaw on Nov 6, 2008 13:17:10 GMT -5
How about a big black cuddly dog named Sirius?
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Post by blackngold on Nov 6, 2008 16:25:00 GMT -5
Another suggestion I read was that they buy a pit bull, put some lipstick on it and name it Sarah.
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Post by blackngold on Nov 6, 2008 16:26:42 GMT -5
Phoenix, at $1,000 a pop (or is that pup) they are a bit out my price range. We had Berner mix from the pound.
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Post by blackngold on Nov 14, 2008 7:46:03 GMT -5
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Post by amandajg on Nov 14, 2008 9:47:22 GMT -5
What's so troubling is that people who said to themselves, "that will never be me," are starting to be "those people." The woman who used to earn $60,000 a year and drove a fancy car is now visiting the food bank. That just goes to show that you should never, ever take good fortune for granted because personal wealth can disappear in an instant. A lesson that our grandparents or great-grandparents tried to pass on, but seemed to get lost in the excesses of the last 15 years that are now drying up.
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Post by blackngold on Nov 20, 2008 8:34:12 GMT -5
I think this is one of the more underreported stories of the 2008 election. People liked to make fun of Obama's "community organizer" background, but he used that experience to generate the two most important factors in any political campaign - money and voters. www.denverpost.com/ci_10929064?source=rss
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Post by blackngold on Dec 9, 2008 7:56:58 GMT -5
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