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Post by Elle Delacour on Jan 11, 2006 1:04:13 GMT -5
P.P.S...... rave, language please. *rolls eyes*
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Post by blackngold on Jan 11, 2006 9:25:29 GMT -5
For my views on platonic relationships please watch When Harry Met Sally. There are plenty of other good reasons to watch it (ie diner scene, how we met scenes), but Harry puts my view on platonic relationships very succinctly.
I am somewhat surprised that the GoF dvd is coming out in March and happy btw. It shows that the bootleggers are eating into the profits of the movie business in a significant way.
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Post by Richard on Jan 11, 2006 10:04:46 GMT -5
Hi everyone! Elle/Amanda (are you using two screen names now?), I like the new sub forums! Will start an 'Introduce yourself' thread soon, as I don't know all the current members. Hope everyone will post and introduces him/herself. I love the way Harry and Hermione are portrayed as being platonic friends. I myself have two close female friends, for whom I never had feelings, even though they are both very attractive women with great personalities. I've known them for so long now and I think dating one of them (or both ) would totally ruin the friendship. I was reading editorials on Mnet yesterday, and came across this ( www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-ladylupin11.shtml) one. It brings on some interesting points: - The Founders all have their own element (Fire for Gryffindor, Water for Slytherin, Earth for Hufflepuff and Air for Ravenclaw)
- These element links contain info on the hiding places of the Horcruxes, as Slytherin's was in a place were water was important (the lake, the swimming, the shore)
- Assuming this is true, Hufflepuff's might be underground, which could mean a link with the goblins and Gringotts, as Voldemort already hoodwinked them once (in the first book)
- In the editorial, they discuss the Ravenclaw Horcrux being the wand of Ravenclaw, and that Ollivander's has it
Except for the last point, I think the editorial has some plausible ideas. What do you guys think? Hope everyone is fine! Richard
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Post by Tonks on Jan 11, 2006 16:28:21 GMT -5
amanda, i really don't think jk puts the emphasis on a platonic relationship b/w harry/hermoine as much as the movies do. i really noticed a connection b/w h/h in the books as much as i noticed it in gof...that was like a smack in the face to me. i think h/h have a sibling like relationship. and again, maybe more emphasized in the movies. i have to admit, i was also a a h/h shipper, i didn't see the "obvious" signs that everyone else saw for harry and ginny until hbp!! ah well. i know what you mean amanda, about having male friends that it's understood you just don't date, but then again there are those tension moments that it's just plain...awkward. in fact, i've had a friendship fail b/c the guy just couldn't understand that rule! LOL!
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Kit M.
Head Girl/Boy
I'm hoppy, cuddly and adorable!
Posts: 104
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Post by Kit M. on Jan 11, 2006 19:59:05 GMT -5
Hi all! (yes, I'm cleverwitch, don't blame me. Read the text!) The H/H thing is emphazied more in the movies. Like a loveydove thing going on. Like when they're talking on the bridge and Hermione all teary. Just one thing to say, HP boards are archiving freaks!
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Post by Richard on Jan 12, 2006 2:45:06 GMT -5
Hi everyone, Wow, these boards are growing! The 'Hermione all teary' bit was one of the few moments in GoF that I felt were overacted a bit. Emma is just too teary. Just one thing to say, HP boards are archiving freaks! I think everyone over here agrees. Hope everyone is fine! Richard
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Post by * amanda on Jan 12, 2006 13:25:41 GMT -5
back to platonic relationships for a second even though I think we've streched this far enough: who do you think did a more realistic job portraying the Harry/Hermione relationship: the books (JKR's restraint and committment to not making them have any sort of non-platonic attraction) or the movie (where there has been considerable more emotion between the two of them, albeit brotherly/sisterly rather than lovey-dovey), or maybe that doesn't even matter because maybe the movies have portrayed it to the same effect that JKR did. What I am trying to get at is to figure out where all of the H/H shippers come from. All along, through the books I never thought H/H were an item in that regard, but I felt the movies have encouraged the shipping because they seem to portray H/H with slightly more "tension" between the two (or maybe that's just me reading things into the chemistry between the actors... which, there again, would prove my theory that the movies have been, whether intentionally or not, promoting the H/H shipping). Richard, I found it funny that you think the part where Hermione overreacts after the ball in the end of the movie was over-acted, because I felt it was about right (and so did a few other girl friends that I saw the movie with). girls, especially at that age, tend to have moments where they just crack and overreact, much to the bewilderment of guys.
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kats
Head Girl/Boy
Posts: 113
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Post by kats on Jan 12, 2006 14:30:38 GMT -5
I feel that the books did a better job of establishing the platonic nature of their relationship. I also feel that the books did a much better job of showing the attraction between Ron and Hermione. I thought it was obvious. The movies are still putting H/H together and throwing the shippers off. The part where Hermione was in the Champion's tent at the beginning of task 1 was unnecessary. I do think the movies created the H/H shippers.
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Kit M.
Head Girl/Boy
I'm hoppy, cuddly and adorable!
Posts: 104
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Post by Kit M. on Jan 12, 2006 16:10:38 GMT -5
I agree kats. They could've put another scene in instead of the champion tent. I mean it's ok once in a while if she cracks up, but hugging him might go somewhat to far.
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Post by Tonks on Jan 12, 2006 16:14:53 GMT -5
wow are these boards growing!! i don't check them for a day or two and i come back and BANG! there are 5 other threads! aye yai yai! richard, i have to agree with amanda. i really don't think emma overacted/hermoine overreacted at the end of the yule ball. a very wise girl said once to ron "just because you have the emotional range of a teaspoon, doesn't mean we all have." ;D (if they cut that from ootp i will seriosly be PO'd! girls have very complex range of emotions and when we get overwhelmed, we crack! i have had one such episode in high school, and i'm sure every other girl around has. we just snap for no good reason, or a very good reason. it just adds to the MYTH that girls are very unstable emotionally...LOL! as for the platonic relationships, i think the book portrays them the best. i really think the movies are overplaying what isn't there, ie the h/h relationship. the movies show that there possibly is a relationship more than friendship b/w them, but in the books we all know that there obviously isn't.
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Post by healer on Jan 12, 2006 18:25:56 GMT -5
Hi All! OK Peeves, What did you do with my last attempt at posting! Some good discussions going on about relationships - Y'all know by now that I'm a 100% Ron/Hermionie Shipper. There's quite a good article over on M-net tonight about Matt Lewis (Neville) - it really shows what a level-headed young man he really is Can someone please email me Techno-muggle instructions on how to get a picture in my signature??? Wont be in chat tonight as my attempts at having a Muggle-proof week are failing miserably so far
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Post by blackngold on Jan 12, 2006 19:00:50 GMT -5
I don't think there was ever anything much in the books to suggest an H/H relationship. I think the main reason people believed in H/H was that that would make HP just like any other book. Harry is the leading man; Hermione the leading lady; ergo they must get together in the end. I never gave shipping much thought through the first three books (the kids were so darn young!) However, the astute reader finds many instances where Ron rushes to defend Hermione's honor, starting with CoS. This could just as easily be explained by Ron being more willing to take offense on a friend's behalf, so I don't put much stock in it. In PoA, we get the first intimation that Harry even likes girls (or that romance will have any part in the books for Harry) with his beginning crush on Cho. To me, this would put a damper on any H/H pairings as what kind of person let's his head be turned by the first cute ass on a broomstick when a true blue friend is at hand. Unless of course, Harry is totally uninterested in Hermione shippingwise. By the end of GoF, it is very clear that Ron likes Hermione and that for the time being Hermione has some interest in Ron. There are numerous instances of Ron's jealousy towards Krum and one or two instances of Hermione being jealous of Fleur. But to me, the capper is the fight at the Yule Ball. If Hermione liked Harry more than Ron would she have been upset by Ron's taunting at the Yule Ball. If she liked Harry more than Ron would she have said,"Well, if that's the way you feel. You know what you can do about it! Next time there's a dance ask me before someone else and not as a last resort." If she liked Hermione, I can understand her getting upset by Ron's taunting about Krum since he made out like she was betraying Harry. However, I can't picture a scenario where she would tell Ron to ask her out.
So by the end of GoF, the situation is this. Ron clearly likes Hermione, but doesn't really know whether Hermione likes him. (Along with his emotional range of a teaspoon, he's not too perceptive). Hermione likes Ron and knows that Ron likes her (being more perceptive). Harry likes Cho and knows that she has some sort of positive feelings for him.
time for dinner more to follow.
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Post by blackngold on Jan 12, 2006 20:15:51 GMT -5
Hermione also spends a lot of time with Ron when Harry is not around. If she liked Harry more than Ron would she willingly spend her summer holiday with the Weasleys on the off chance that Harry would show up at some point. I agree that if Hermione had that kind of desparate love for Harry she might be willing to go to great lengths for the chance to be near him, but nothing in the first four books suggests that she might feel that way about him. Finally, (and you platonic friendship people will have to answer this one), if you view Ron as a platonic friend, meanwhile knowing how he really feels about you, would you spend the summer holidays with him just on the off chance that Harry will visit at some point? At the very least, Ron is supposed to be her friend, so she shouldn't lead him on in any way. Tonks and Amanda have already pointed out that sometimes things can get "icky" (that being the technical term) when someone crosses the imaginary line.
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Post by blackngold on Jan 12, 2006 21:58:24 GMT -5
This is completely off topic, but I didn't feel it warranted a new topic header. Is anyone else as addicted to postsecret.com as I am?
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Post by sjr0301 on Jan 12, 2006 22:03:00 GMT -5
I agree that the movies have fostered the H/H shipping. From the end of COS, where Hermione hugs Harry (Not in the book), to POA, which has several cute little interactions between Harry and Hermione, but also between hermione and Ron (think Harry & Hermione hugging in the forest excaping from werewolf, but hermione putting her ehad on Ron at Buck beak's execution), to GoF, Hermione hugging Harry in lots of scens, getting weepy and "scared" and even kissing him on the head when he comes back from the lake. I think I remember that right. But these could also be seen as platonic, brotherly, motherly. As for instance, she tells Harry to go to bed, but ropn, that he wrecked her night and to ask her out next time.
In the books, it's really clear that Harry and hermione are just friends and jk locked that in in book six. Hermione has never been bothered by Harry's interest in Cho but she is annoyed and jealous about Ron's interest in Fleur.
"nuff said. At leat no one here is a Harry/Luna shipper that I know of! (and if you are, don't get offended, but, that's never happening. In fact, i ahve two alternate endings for Luna: a) she survives and ends up being a Seer and replacing Trelawney as the Divination teacher; b) she gets killed by Death Eaters.
At the moment, I'm less interested in shipping, which actually took up too much time in Book 6 (too much hermione & ron anyway), and more interested in how Harry will finally defeat Voldemort.
I don't think Harry is a horcrux. I prefer the arguments that it takes a deliberate spell to create one and that the murder has to come first. since Voldemort was ripped from his body by the curse rebounding on him, he was unable to perform the horcrux spell to turn Harry into one. It makes no sense that he would make Harry one purposely. You don't put a horcrux into a dead body and his intent was to kill Harry. So, was there an object at Godric's Hollow which was intended to be a horcrux but was never turned into one? Is it still there in the ruins? could he have gone back and retrieved it? and how soon after a murder rips the soul does one have to perform the horcrux spell to be able to take advatange of teh tear in teh soul? Does the soul re-intergrate if no horcrux is made? Or does it stay mangled, but all in the original person?
That said, what is the nature of the connection between Harry and Voldemort if Harry is not a Horcrux? Is the scar a connection between their minds rather than a repository for a fragmetn of Voldemort's soul? I prefer that explanation. There is also the question of transferrence of power. Is wizard power a transfer of knowledge, a mind connection, or is it a physical trait? A kind of animal trait connected to emotion and desire and will rather than to intelligence and reason? Or does it connect to both?
Okay, this is really a lot of blather, but at least I made up for not posting for a couple of days Lol.
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Post by Richard on Jan 13, 2006 10:06:46 GMT -5
Hi all, I love how this forum is growing! It already is a far better 'home' for the MUGWUMPS than the old on and I think will eventually be better than the WB thread, as we are allowed to post lots of off-topic ramblings! To me, this would put a damper on any H/H pairings as what kind of person let's his head be turned by the first cute ass on a broomstick when a true blue friend is at hand. BnG, that is funny! Matt, check this ( mugwumps.proboards80.com/index.cgi?board=help&action=display&thread=1136473550) thread for helping with pictures in sigs. Re: shipping, what about Luna and Ron. I always liked the little moments they had (like the laughing on the Hogwarts Express). I'm not a Luna/Ron-shipper, but I do think Luna has a soft spot for him. Hope everyone is doing fine! Richard
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kats
Head Girl/Boy
Posts: 113
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Post by kats on Jan 13, 2006 16:14:56 GMT -5
I had not though people were right when they thought Harry or his scar might be a horcrux. However, The "but in essence divided" comment that Dd made has been bothering me. At the time I thought it was just because Harry was in Voldemort's mind but now I am getting a bit worried. At least if it does foreshadow Harry as horcrux it shows that it is not a true part of him, but divided.
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Kit M.
Head Girl/Boy
I'm hoppy, cuddly and adorable!
Posts: 104
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Post by Kit M. on Jan 13, 2006 16:44:47 GMT -5
Sjr, the scar I think is the proof of Voldemort transferring some of his "knowledge" like parseltounge into Harry.
The thing I'm most confused about is the portraits. When Dumbly appears as a portrait can he still talk to Harry? How much is contained in the portraits as far as memory goes? Will he be able to teach Harry anything through the portrait?
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Post by healer on Jan 13, 2006 17:52:46 GMT -5
Hi All! KIT M - Great point about the portraits and how much Harry could still learn from the 'animated' Dd. I've often wondered whether Dd has been keeping an eye on Harry et al through the Chocolate Frog cards??? RICHARD - URRRRRRRRGGGH!! What a load of over complicated messing about!! Is there any way that I can do something more sensible (ie easier) like link to a picture on My Computer which I am using as a background to my desktop? Surely this would be MUCH more sensible than trying to find internet hosts etc etc?
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Post by * amanda on Jan 13, 2006 18:18:54 GMT -5
Hi everyone. I absolutely do not see Harry (or his scar, or any other part of his body for that matter) being a horcrux. When would Voldemort have made him a horcrux? Surely he'd already put away the horcruxes (or, as the Muggleguys would say, "horcri") before Harry was born. Secondly, it wasn't until just before Harry's parent's death that Voldy knew that Harry (or Neville) could potentially be the cause of his downfall. Before that, why would he know Harry? Why would he make a complete stranger a horcrux? How could he have even gotten to him unnoticed? Finally, James and Lily were his enemies ("thrice defied") and why would he make his horcrux someone that he's an enemy of? Finally, all of his horcruxes that we've seen thus far are inanimate objects. Making a living being a horcrux is stupid, because what if they're hit by a bus one day? Or decide to kill themselves? Bye, bye horcrux. Voldy carefully selected and hid his horcruxes. He's not stupid enough to use Harry. anyways, I haven't read any of the theories (evidence for or against) this Harry as a Horcrux idea but that's because I haven't had the patience for it... it just seems a little too outlandish to me. Matt, I think Richard volunteered to host images so if you want to email him a pic for your avatar you can. Otherwise, if you go to the avatar menu in the profile editing section, I did link to a few avatars that you can use, so scroll through the list and see if there's anything you like on there. What an incredibly long week! I'm off to have some fun tonight so talk to you all later in the weekend.
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